New Members & Forum Subscriptions

[Ormester101]

2 hours ago, harry monk said:

 

 

 

but what the team have to  becareful of is that it doesnt become a closed  shop  and however  big it is how  many are actually  active on the forum and  for them 10 pound maybe well worth it   but for some they will turn there nose  up  .it  seems to some people on here anybody who questions  the decision is a bad egg  its not  people are allowed to question  because we live in democracy .maybe a  members  group  soley for members should be set up on facebook for the people who use it  as a back up .

Edited May 4, 2018 by Ormester101

[Ormester101]

1 hour ago, Simon Deery said:

Really makes me laugh (or grimace should I say) when the Facebook argument pops up its head. Let's get something clear shall we, this site is NOT a second fiddle competitor to Facebook. They are two completely different things so stop comparing something that shouldn't be compared.

This site operates with rules and encourages people to behave like civilised humans. Facebook is a free for all where anything goes, rumour included.

Does Facebook have a comprehensive rides list? No. Does it have everything centred in one place with a system to prevent non enthusiasts posting troll like comments and starting trouble? No.

It is a pathetic gadget for people to feel wanted and whilst people here slag off the team for asking for contributions to keep things moving, how many of them couldn't care less about what is happening to their personal data and security on Facebook? They will defend the crooked operations of that site because they would rather accept the failings than lose their "toy". Yet the team ask for money to sustain the site and pay the bills and they are accused of being unreasonable!

Time to get things in perspective. And before im mobbed for daring to speak against the dearly beloved Facebook I have heard all the counter arguments before so save your energy. Mr Zuckerberg is a man that will never be harvesting my data at the expense of me living a fake celebrity tell all lifestyle.

i think your thinking of open groups a closed or seceret group would work basically the  same i have said before there  and the zuckerberg comments  get in the real world they all do it why do you think all the companies  have  made you sign a new agreement on data 

[harry m]

9 minutes ago, Ormester101 said:

 

 

but what the team have to  becareful of is that it doesnt become a closed  shop  and however  big it is how  many are actually  active on the forum and  for them 10 pound maybe well worth it   but for some they will turn there nose  up  .it  seems to some people on here anybody who questions  the decision is a bad egg  its not  people are allowed to question  because we live in democracy .maybe a  members  group  soley for members should be set up on facebook for the people who use it  as a back up .

 

 We don't want it to become a 'closed' shop, that's not what its about, Its about the forum's survival and being fair to everybody at the same time.

I don't have a problem with people asking questions, after all, that's how we find things out in life.

[Gary Witcomb]

The simple fact is there is no other single place you can get the information contained on this site, it has taken years to build up the Photos / records with 1000's of hours input & updating which takes place all of which is second to none, yes Facebook has 100's of fairground enthusiasts pages and if you put them all together you still would not have the records we have,

 

We took the very difficult decision and by no means did we take it lightly, we knew that a few of our membership would not be happy but we are trying our very best to keep the Forum Running for everyone not just the few, making its a yearly subscription was the only way forward or we would have closed, its not a bluff we could have closed with the loss of all the records, and enjoyment this site brings, Members should all be very grateful that they had free access for so long and that was down to the loyal Forum supporters some of which paid the top rate of £20 for years, to keep it going, for years Our Founder had to pay out of his own pocket, and many of you just sat back and enjoyed this site for Free, well that is no longer an option,

 

We know that the annual £10 Subscription is value for money, we pride ourselves that we operate a secure site without intrusive adds which none of us want, we don't share any info from this site as a result you don't Receive unsolicited mail,if you want all that go stick with Facebook,

I bet most of you will spend £10 a month in McDonalds or Costa Coffee !!

 

You can moan all you like but rest assured there is a Great Team of people who have taken on this challenge to keep this forum running all in our own time without complaint you would not believe the work involved in running this site,  its vast

but it has to be done and the last thing we needed was to worry about paying the bills this way we can concentrate on bring you a great site for everyone to enjoy

 

This site is unique and very special and has enhanced many an enthusiasts Hobby for near on 20 years i ask you one question  want would you do if it this site disappeared !!

 

 

[Simon Deery]

Very well put Gary. I think that is probably the most constructive and well thought comment on the topic to date. 

My previous rant above is out of sheer frustration. Would everybody please stop for a moment and consider that the loss of this forum would be nothing less than a disaster for the hobby and detrimental to many enthusiasts.

If you do not care for the future of this place and the 20 years of dedication and priceless information that it has to its name then please do not seek to criticise and push any more negativity here. If you think there is somewhere else that all of this can be gained free of charge in the same format with the same team of dedicated people please head there and enjoy.

I will support this site and promote its ongoing and past success in any way I can and continue to show my gratitude for the pleasure it brings. If that means a tenner per year then it is a tenner well spent. Might I add that a backlog of photo printing from last years fairs has today cost me £40 in printing costs. Guess what, I handed over the £40 happily because it is the hobby that I love and keeping my photo records up to date is a big part of that. I will point out here that I am not a millionaire and £40 to me means a lot of shopping or a tank of petrol etc. not just spare change. 

Sunday I shall be visiting a fair with my son and that will be rides, games and refreshments for us both. Again, money well spent as its what I enjoy and the money is going to the showmen to support them. My point here is that I value my hobby and therefore I would find it difficult to begrudge spending money on it.

Maybe to all those sceptics out there consider spending a tenner for the year and at the end of that year look back and ask was that worth the price? How many times did you log in? How many times did you consult the ride list to ID something? How many reports did you read? How many photo topics did you enjoy looking through? Good value for money in my opinion.

[Shaun Martin]

In the past i have only paid once, but then i thought why pay, very few others paid,  so decided not to bother paying again.
I have accessed the forum since the early days and it is part of my everyday life, something we would all miss, if it ceased existing!
It is not just the cost of hosting of the site, but there is also the cost of the software that the forum runs on which is considerable, so i am behind the team, and will be paying my £10 for dare i say this 'valuable institution@ - just give me a nudge after the weekend 

Thanks to @Bill Edwards for creating it, and all the hours he has put into running it, and the team for wanting to keeping it going.

 

[Ormester101]

1 hour ago, harry monk said:

 

 We don't want it to become a 'closed' shop, that's not what its about, Its about the forum's survival and being fair to everybody at the same time.

I don't have a problem with people asking questions, after all, that's how we find things out in life.

imagine someone for the first time signing up and  told you have to pay 10 pound its  tiny iknow but what you think the majority will do yep not pay i know showman who dont use this site and enthusiasts i like it  but changes need to happen  someone posted what wpuld we do if it closed down facebook quite simple  these forums are unique my question is how do sites like themepark nl, kirmes  forum   etc etc  fund themselves  maybe people need to look into that ? 

[twister guy]

I think its a bit un fair getting people to Pay to look at the site i just come on to look at the photos people put on but i dont come on every day but its like a said before another Forum i was on closed coz people couldent afford to pay i have my reasons why i cant but its Personal and its a bit wrong getting Showman to pay coz i know there is loads what come on here but looks like its that Way now and u have made your Choice so think i will go sorry i cant help Paying for the site 

[Paul Needham]

3 hours ago, Simon Deery said:

Really makes me laugh (or grimace should I say) when the Facebook argument pops up its head. Let's get something clear shall we, this site is NOT a second fiddle competitor to Facebook. They are two completely different things so stop comparing something that shouldn't be compared.

This site operates with rules and encourages people to behave like civilised humans. Facebook is a free for all where anything goes, rumour included.

Does Facebook have a comprehensive rides list? No. Does it have everything centred in one place with a system to prevent non enthusiasts posting troll like comments and starting trouble? No.

It is a pathetic gadget for people to feel wanted and whilst people here slag off the team for asking for contributions to keep things moving, how many of them couldn't care less about what is happening to their personal data and security on Facebook? They will defend the crooked operations of that site because they would rather accept the failings than lose their "toy". Yet the team ask for money to sustain the site and pay the bills and they are accused of being unreasonable!

Time to get things in perspective. And before im mobbed for daring to speak against the dearly beloved Facebook I have heard all the counter arguments before so save your energy. Mr Zuckerberg is a man that will never be harvesting my data at the expense of me living a fake celebrity tell all lifestyle.

yep. about sums it up,

thank god or the team, or to quote winny "we would enter a new dark age" so its come down to, a tiny number of people making entirely reasonable remarks about not wanting to pay a fiver for the rides list albeit perversly confessing to not be interested in the list anyway and wanting/expecting to see where the costs go ( but one still not bothered about the rides list anyway) this, despite the overwhelming majority of posts being in disagreement and the ever growing roll of places, sites and whatever showing nothing whatsoever about their costs, and bill saying he accepted their comments but,,,,,, keeping on and on till he had had enough and was going to shut, and if the team ( A team really !) hadn't come forward this screen would now be blank, and now the same , "point" becomes morphed into the proposed £10 subscription  from next  may  and so it goes on, till the team get fed up and pull the plug too, 

you want to understand the costs? well heres my fag packet maths for you,  bill was meeting some of them himself but understandably didn't want to foot them all, so after lengthy disscusions with the moderators etc proposed the £5 IF you wanted to and ONLY for looking at rides list, then decided he'd had enough, now WITHOUT bill its £10 from next may for ANYTHING,  so bill must have put a fair bit in, so is it any wonder (not to most) he has had enough of the same argument over and over  ,which, regardless of how nicely its put will seem like a dig to him, if you are not happy on here, why not visit a site that fits your ideals better, that publishes its finances for you, is run be profesionals  with adverts to make up its costs and leave the rest of us to it,😉

[Gary Witcomb]

10 hours ago, Fred the Red said:

In the past i have only paid once, but then i thought why pay, very few others paid,  so decided not to bother paying again.
I have accessed the forum since the early days and it is part of my everyday life, something we would all miss, if it ceased existing!
It is not just the cost of hosting of the site, but there is also the cost of the software that the forum runs on which is considerable, so i am behind the team, and will be paying my £10 for dare i say this 'valuable institution@ - just give me a nudge after the weekend 

Thanks to @Bill Edwards for creating it, and all the hours he has put into running it, and the team for wanting to keeping it going.

 

 

its good to see you back on board & posting again Shaun 

[John Medway]

£10 per annum equates to 20 pence a week. Its not actually breaking the bank.

[harry m]

11 hours ago, twister guy said:

I think its a bit un fair getting people to Pay to look at the site i just come on to look at the photos people put on but i dont come on every day but its like a said before another Forum i was on closed coz people couldent afford to pay i have my reasons why i cant but its Personal and its a bit wrong getting Showman to pay coz i know there is loads what come on here but looks like its that Way now and u have made your Choice so think i will go sorry i cant help Paying for the site 

 

 I'm sorry that you think its a bit unfair, that something you've had the benefit of for free is going to cost you money in the future.

I'm sorry that it actually costs money to host the site and has monthly bills that need covering for it too continue. It's only due to difficulties over the years that we've even had to look at doing something about it, or we 'could' of just let the site disappear altogether, then NO ONE would be able to see anything.

[Wood1]

My Membership is up for renewal  next month and I am in 2 minds whether to renew or  not £10 is nothing  but is it value for money ?

Bill deserves a lot of credit for introducing something at the time unique and up to date ,but personally  I feel the site has lost its way in recent times.

Their are so many rules and regulations  that a hand book should be sent out for members to learn and to pass a exam  in  !

I rarely even bother on commentating on anything  recently as almost every comment gets removed by a moderator !

 

I know of other members who feel the same way about all the rules, obviously the site as to follow the law or face potential legal action ,but the rules  now go way beyond that

 

The circus section should  be removed, as its rarely updated. Their are a few a few fair  transport pictures posted most days but not  many especially compared to FB.

When  new management take over a concern they normally say  what  new changes and ideas they are going to bring  ,other than a price increase I am not aware of any  other Proposed changes.

 

Lots of people on here slag of Facebook ,but the groups I belong to  are in a different league to  ATFOTF.

Their are many members  or ex members and a ex moderator of this site  all contribute regularly on other sites. On  one site ,you get up to date circus calls for that week ,another site has a long running thread of old Circus shows .The pictures on the Facebook groups  are amazing  when compared to this site .

 

So other than  fair reports I am unsure as to what I am getting for my money , rides list do not interest me .I would happy to send £10 a year to the Facebook groups  as their sites  are so good .How will this site aim to be different and unique   to how it was when Bill first started it ? Will their more rules or a relaxation of rules ?. 

Members slagging  facebook groups off   are  not describing any site I recognise and wonder what they are basing their criticism on .

[Peter van der Knaap]

10 pounds isn't a lot of money. But it is still a hurdle which anyone will have to take who hasn't seen the contents of this forum. If one cannot access a site without paying or if there isn't a temporary free membership available, you will see the demise of this forum, because no one will pay if they don't know what they are going to get. That's a very important thing to take into account.

 

Secondary, do you really think the majority of the members will pay? Has this been asked to the members here? What was the result of this vote? We used to have free access to a museum around here. The number of visitors was quite high in those years and the souvenir shop and coffeecorner was enough to keep it open. Now, one has to pay € 2,--, because the management thought they could raise more money. The entrance fee isn't that high. But look: the number of visitors to this museum collapsed and now they are struggling to keep it open...

 

And third: how long do you think this forum will survive if someone will start another one with free access? It will take one member here, to copy the rides list, make some noise around the fans and you might get some serious competition...

 

Personally, I think that this decision will mean the end of this forum. I give it about 3 years, before you will conclude that the number of paid subscriptions will not be enough to survive.

 

As I said, other fair forums have made smart deals with advertising firms. Those firms provide money so the costs of the forum is covered. Those firms pay to advertise on those forums, with no costs at all. Those firms even make the banners and have access to the forums to put them in their designated areas.

Are those forums like themepark.nl, hetkermisforum.nl, kirmesforum.de and others full with advertising? No, they aren't. But costs are paid for and so they can provide free access for all members.

 

Also, I've taken the liberty to look into the advertising banners here. I'm getting the impression that it are forum members who pay for those here. This is not professional advertising. A site as big as this one, should have gone to the big bad advertisement bureaus a long, long time ago to make a good deal on advertising to cover the costs. I would suggest that you check out the named sites and look how many ads are running there and if those banners are hurting those forums. I don't think so...

[Ormester101]

8 minutes ago, Wood1 said:

My Membership is up for renewal  next month and I am in 2 minds whether to renew or  not £10 is nothing  but is it value for money ?

Bill deserves a lot of credit for introducing something at the time unique and up to date ,but personally  I feel the site has lost its way in recent times.

Their are so many rules and regulations  that a hand book should be sent out for members to learn and to pass a exam  in  !

I rarely even bother on commentating on anything  recently as almost every comment gets removed by a moderator !

 

I know of other members who feel the same way about all the rules, obviously the site as to follow the law or face potential legal action ,but the rules  now go way beyond that

 

The circus section should  be removed, as its rarely updated. Their are a few a few fair  transport pictures posted most days but not  many especially compared to FB.

When  new management take over a concern they normally say  what  new changes and ideas they are going to bring  ,other than a price increase I am not aware of any  other Proposed changes.

 

Lots of people on here slag of Facebook ,but the groups I belong to  are in a different league to  ATFOTF.

Their are many members  or ex members and a ex moderator of this site  all contribute regularly on other sites. On  one site ,you get up to date circus calls for that week ,another site has a long running thread of old Circus shows .The pictures on the Facebook groups  are amazing  when compared to this site .

 

So other than  fair reports I am unsure as to what I am getting for my money , rides list do not interest me .I would happy to send £10 a year to the Facebook groups  as their sites  are so good .How will this site aim to be different and unique   to how it was when Bill first started it ? Will their more rules or a relaxation of rules ?. 

Members slagging  facebook groups off   are  not describing any site I recognise and wonder what they are basing their criticism on .

well said  but  sadly some  people dont understand this  i spoke to  quite a few  people  about this and they laughed i agree changes have to  be paid  sometimes i feel  people are looked down on  others   and theres a touch of arrogance  i have said this before so its not the first time  10 pound isnt a lot  buts its a principle   but i said before the european  examples dont charge and the team wont look at the viability  of advertising  .

[Roger Peatman]

I think this has now reached the point where members need to decide where their future lies - either agree to subscribe, or withdraw from the Forum - it's a free and personal choice.

[Steve Barton]

 

2 hours ago, Peter van der Knaap said:

Personally, I think that this decision will mean the end of this forum. I give it about 3 years, before you will conclude that the number of paid subscriptions will not be enough to survive.

 

 

That's 2 years longer than the Forum had this time last week when Bill informed the Mod's & Panel of his intention to close it on 01-05-2019.

 

 

 

 

[Paul Needham]

 

7 hours ago, Peter van der Knaap said:

10 pounds isn't a lot of money. But it is still a hurdle which anyone will have to take who hasn't seen the contents of this forum. If one cannot access a site without paying or if there isn't a temporary free membership available, you will see the demise of this forum, because no one will pay if they don't know what they are going to get. That's a very important thing to take into account.

 

Secondary, do you really think the majority of the members will pay? Has this been asked to the members here? What was the result of this vote? We used to have free access to a museum around here. The number of visitors was quite high in those years and the souvenir shop and coffeecorner was enough to keep it open. Now, one has to pay € 2,--, because the management thought they could raise more money. The entrance fee isn't that high. But look: the number of visitors to this museum collapsed and now they are struggling to keep it open...

 

And third: how long do you think this forum will survive if someone will start another one with free access? It will take one member here, to copy the rides list, make some noise around the fans and you might get some serious competition...

 

Personally, I think that this decision will mean the end of this forum. I give it about 3 years, before you will conclude that the number of paid subscriptions will not be enough to survive.

 

As I said, other fair forums have made smart deals with advertising firms. Those firms provide money so the costs of the forum is covered. Those firms pay to advertise on those forums, with no costs at all. Those firms even make the banners and have access to the forums to put them in their designated areas.

Are those forums like themepark.nl, hetkermisforum.nl, kirmesforum.de and others full with advertising? No, they aren't. But costs are paid for and so they can provide free access for all members.

 

Also, I've taken the liberty to look into the advertising banners here. I'm getting the impression that it are forum members who pay for those here. This is not professional advertising. A site as big as this one, should have gone to the big bad advertisement bureaus a long, long time ago to make a good deal on advertising to cover the costs. I would suggest that you check out the named sites and look how many ads are running there and if those banners are hurting those forums. I don't think so...

I agree with what you have said but the brick that was pulled out and caused the wall to fall down If indeed it eventually does was definatley pulled out by yourself complaining about paying £5 for access to the rides list despite also saying you had no interest in even viewing it and despite your comments being answered continually going on and on till bill had had enough, and so on and so on, 

[Craig Vincent]

Don’t think you can throw the blame of  the slow downfall of the forum purely on costs !

 

its is a great site for information, but terrible for asking questions... 

 

ive seen some real arrogance over the years on this site to young enthusiasts, and some terrible handling to older generations asking questions.. 

 

forums exist it’s because they are talking to each other...

 

in on this forum 1 asks for info .... your expected to look for it on the site....

 

conversation is everything... that’s how friendships are formed! 

 

Bill probaly just hd enough of us all moaning in many ways 

 

maybe the new ‘team’ should relaunch the forum with there rules in place then we can see what the intentions are 

[Nick Attwell]

13 hours ago, Craig Vincent said:

 

its is a great site for information, but terrible for asking questions... 

 

 

 

Just to say I disagree on Craig's point here; I've asked questions & they've readily been answered by members on here

Edited May 6, 2018 by Nick Attwell
Quote to main text seperation

[The Team]

Two  related Topics for you all to read

and

 

 

[Trojanhorse11]

The Team,

I have a query about the username thing.

 

Like many people, I don't like the idea of putting my real name online (hence why I have always used an alternative username).

 

For example, would John Smith have to be that full name, or could it be J. Smith or John S. or just John?

 

Thanks

[The Team]

It would have to be John Smith.  

[Trojanhorse11]

10 minutes ago, The Team said:

It would have to be John Smith.  

 

OK, thank you.

[Dan Thomas]

Firstly, I contribute financially to the forum, have done for the past few years and am very keen to see this site survive. Below is my opinion on the situation and it is intended to be constructive with suggestions.

 

I just read that the forum has had over 1000 visitors in the past month. If all of those are required to pay £10 to do the same in 13 months time, the forum will have an income of over £10,000 each year. This seems like a lot of money and I would hazzard a guess is more than the hosting fees. If that was possible, then fantastic, we could even donate some of it to charity or something. However I suspect that it is very unlikely all those members will pay, it's just the way things tend to play out.

 

Therefore are the moderators working on the assumption that in order to be sustainable, active user numbers will have to drop dramatically once the paywall is in place? If so, that would be a great shame.

 

I am not sure if the decision is final, however I personally feel locking out the entire site would be a mistake. It would add another barrier to people contributing to the site. Perhaps all data (events, lists and photo threads) should be behind the paywall instead. Therefore at least there would be some information available for free which will hopefully encourage membership.