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On ‎05‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 12:30, Wood1 said:

My Membership is up for renewal  next month and I am in 2 minds whether to renew or  not £10 is nothing  but is it value for money ?

Bill deserves a lot of credit for introducing something at the time unique and up to date ,but personally  I feel the site has lost its way in recent times.

Their are so many rules and regulations  that a hand book should be sent out for members to learn and to pass a exam  in  !

I rarely even bother on commentating on anything  recently as almost every comment gets removed by a moderator !

 

I know of other members who feel the same way about all the rules, obviously the site as to follow the law or face potential legal action ,but the rules  now go way beyond that

 

The circus section should  be removed, as its rarely updated. Their are a few a few fair  transport pictures posted most days but not  many especially compared to FB.

When  new management take over a concern they normally say  what  new changes and ideas they are going to bring  ,other than a price increase I am not aware of any  other Proposed changes.

 

Lots of people on here slag of Facebook ,but the groups I belong to  are in a different league to  ATFOTF.

Their are many members  or ex members and a ex moderator of this site  all contribute regularly on other sites. On  one site ,you get up to date circus calls for that week ,another site has a long running thread of old Circus shows .The pictures on the Facebook groups  are amazing  when compared to this site .

 

So other than  fair reports I am unsure as to what I am getting for my money , rides list do not interest me .I would happy to send £10 a year to the Facebook groups  as their sites  are so good .How will this site aim to be different and unique   to how it was when Bill first started it ? Will their more rules or a relaxation of rules ?. 

Members slagging  facebook groups off   are  not describing any site I recognise and wonder what they are basing their criticism on .

I have now decided over the weekend ,not to renew my membership next month and that £10 is awful waste of money to join this site. Visiting   this site  over the past few days, little has been added other than the debate about membership subscription .Compare this with facebook groups ,loads of new pictures  some of the Moscow state circus from 2001  by a ex moderator on this site ,a new but old booking office for the Big Kidd circus ,just to name a few. I feel the team in charge of this site see it as something better than anything else out their, for a long time this site was the best  and nothing could compare to it ,but now I feel it is tired and has not moved with the times.£10 is nothing if it represents value but I just feel the panel should look how exciting the facebook groups are compared to this tired looking site.

Also on facebook  groups your comments ,even ones saying how good something is are not removed unlike this site witch is heavily edited by moderators .Will be sorry to leave this site joined in 2004 and subscribed to it in the past as then great value for money but just feel the site has lost its way .Also I can see as others have said a new more exciting site may start up even with subscription  may emerge .

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Adam Brown

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On 05/05/2018 at 19:37, Paul Needham said:

 

I agree with what you have said but the brick that was pulled out and caused the wall to fall down If indeed it eventually does was definatley pulled out by yourself complaining about paying £5 for access to the rides list despite also saying you had no interest in even viewing it and despite your comments being answered continually going on and on till bill had had enough, and so on and so on, 

 

You can't run something like this without having a target pinned to you. The question was never really answered either and I think that is the point.

 

If I buy a magazine, I accept it is a commercial enterprise and think no more of it. Clubs have always worked on the basis of being accountable to members, forums ought be no different - unless commercial. I accept when it is one mans personal property it all becomes a bit hazy (Tractiontalk is similar, but anyone who asks gets a run down of the numbers privately, those who don't care don't see it).

 

I don't think anything I have said or asked has been unreasonable, nor have I made any comments that I would consider offensive or rude (or they'd have been removed).

 

Money is a vulgar subject but fag packet maths is not an answer. The questions asked have been polite and reasonable. Some of the responses have been less than courteous. To ask 'why must I pay for something that was once free' is a reasonable question. To get offended and take it as a personal dig at your integrity is not a reasonable response.

 

As I have said (repeatedly) I'm happy to let the new team bed in and decide how its all going to run. I'd like it to survive. If I understand how it is going to run, and the finances behind it (no other club I am part of expects my money be it £5, £10 or £100 for some of the car clubs without telling me and the other members where it goes). That is me personally, but I suspect I am not alone. It doesn't matter that it is 'only a tenner', it is a principle. It is not an insinuation that someone is making off with the money.

 

I'm not up for an argument on this, but I do seem to keep getting pulled back into it. I do not accept that I, or our Dutch friend are responsible for this situation, that is frankly ludicrous. I've only 'kept banging' the drum in response to digs about the original question. 

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Mike Willis

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1 hour ago, Dan Thomas said:

I just read that the forum has had over 1000 visitors in the past month. If all of those are required to pay £10 to do the same in 13 months time, the forum will have an income of over £10,000 each year. This seems like a lot of money and I would hazzard a guess is more than the hosting fees. If that was possible, then fantastic, we could even donate some of it to charity or something. However I suspect that it is very unlikely all those members will pay, it's just the way things tend to play out.

 

Of those visitors how many have contributed to the site either financially or with posts? - Very few

 

If some of those had paid the previous Supporter premium of £5 we probably wouldn't be in the position which we are now.

 

It's like walking into a Newsagents and seeing how many people take down a magazine from the shelf, scan through it for information they want and then replace it on the shelf without paying.

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Super Chap

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I really wont be suprised if this post or me gets deleted but im having my 2p worth of say 

 

I have been a member of atfotf since i first saw it back in the 90s when me and daniel traylen were at morden and went on the collage computors and that must have been around 94 

 but I dont come on here very often now as ive got to much going on but  ive noticed that in  the last few years this forum has gone downhill 

The people now running it use "the team" and not there own name and to me the forum is very clicky esp with a few of the mods

And if a mod dont like a post they delete it and wont answer when you ask why it was deleted 

A certain mod member or the team or whatevet you want to be called  is always going on about wanting members to subscribe and they do seem very very pushy which to be honest gets right on my wick 

 

I can see this forum closing down as you want new members to pay to look at it which to me is just stupid thats like saying if u want to go in asda to look around you have to pay to enter 

 

Why can someone have a banner on here for a poxy £20 a year why not make that per month as i bet they make a damn sight more than £20 a year off this forum 

 

People have moaned because they want to drive 1000s of miles per year to do reports or take pics and dont get many thumbs up or thanks but that up to you if you wanna drive miles 

 

A certain member who i have met once or twice years ago and who i  do have a lot of respect for drives up and down the country taking pics and puts them on his own site and i have not once seen him moan once about the cost 

 

I dont know why bill has left and handed the forumhe built up from nothing but i do have my suspicions 

 

1 simple question for "the team" how much does it cost to host the forum per month ??? 

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Paul Needham

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dear Adam, no one has , to my knowledge said anything offensive or rude or asked anything unreasonable, or as you rightly say they would have been removed, that's the purpose of the rules  and the reason we have them, and therefore the number we have, as was also brought up elswhere

to the best of my knowledge ( and the way I intended it) the term " fag packet maths" merely means a rough calculation without empirically defined and proven data to arrive at something not possible to properly calculate but the answer would be pretty fair assessment  , so the fag packet bit typifies this pencilled rough method, and no lack of courtesy should be inferred, the fact that bill amongst a lot of others who have voiced support for payment gave various approval marks at the post baseline surely backs this up, in fact, far from being a lack of courtesy it should be taken as the opposite since I made an effort to answer the question lots are asking and no one is answering,

I have not said you are responsible, I do not believe you are responsible ,,but if you read bills reasons why he got to the point of shutting the forum no discussion bang that's it ive had enough style, after how many decades I cant see any other answer than that our dutch friend had a pretty large speaking part in it,

lets just take a step back and consider, IF my fag packet scribbling was even near, then bill has carried this site for goodness knows how much, so to hear/read someone asking for all sorts of figures and what have you , I mean how else could one take it? whats important to consider, is, these are just bare words, no tone, facial expression, body language and millions of years of learned behaviour we don't even know we have,  look, surely you've seen workmates really swearing in angry downright nasty tones to each other, and then it turns out one cracks a smile and then other does too and its all just like dogs play fighting, but if you typed it out and read it and didn't know them or see it,,,,,,,,? as it happens I HAVE COME TO COMPLETLY AGGREE WITH YOU AND PETER, not over £5 for the rides list which I confess i see as no problem but, the issue of the payment ( any amount ) to view and post, the forum has in the last few years suffered less and less content added and I think any payment other than solely rides list could/would make this worse, I agree it is a principle but rather I suggest the principle is one of go on net ,don't pay anything, ( isp excepted) I strongly believe  we should have say 3 months or whatever of adverts or whatever is practical a time in order to keep the forum free on the vast majority of areas, I rarely see any adverts or at least intrusive ones anywhere outside of say online newspapers, Wikipedia is my go to wise friend for example and cannot say I ever see them, except once a flood they have a masthead whip round one, so I say, instead of a lot of us saying we don't mind paying and sort of prevailing by numbers and others unhappy ,why not at least try adverts, keep it free, help keep the numbers up, posts up, and surely not hanker after some perceived ( smaller more intimate ) "forum" that I can neither remember or would in any way cut off people who after all share our passions,  sorry for the length of post😉

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Paul Needham

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sorry I didn't it clear, I meant TRY adverts for a time to see if they were all that bad after all 

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Chris Allen

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i think the new management should be named the.. A TEAM ... (the access team)

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Discussion on a Forum is great, we don't want to have to moderate any topics, carry on Gentlemen and Ladies , we DO take notice of what you tell us for improvements 😊

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You MIGHT all want to read this NEW Announcement 😊

 

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