New ride updates list

[Daniel Miller]

I know the New Rides/changes forum has now been closed, is there a way to find updates to rides without having to look through the whole rides list to find updates?

 

Also, if a ride changes hands for example, is there still a written note to notify of the change, or does it just show as something on the ride page was updated? (how do we know what data was changed to what if so?) 

 

I'm struggling to find out how to read about updates easily. I'm guessing that I've missed something, I'm just confused as to how to follow the ride updates now. 

 

Thank you.

[Bill Edwards]

The Restricted Rides List will always have the latest, most up to date info we have. 

 

Any member with an update, change of owner etc will post this to the relevant Free Rides List entry. 

 

I always enter the forum via the "Unread Content" link - https://www.fun-fairs.co.uk/discover/unread/ - that way a quick scan down the list will show which rides have been updated. When I've looked at any topics of interest I mark the site as read until my next visit via the https://www.fun-fairs.co.uk/discover/unread/ link

 

The written  note you refer to will be on the Free Rides list entry. 

 

I hope that explains!

[Daniel Miller]

Ahh ok, thank you 😊 

[Bill Edwards]

If you have any suggestions on how we can improve the system, we'd be happy to hear them 👍

[John Garton]

I agree with Daniel, to me the New/Changes forum was the most natural and intuitive place for this information, I find the new system clunky, just my two pence worth.

[Gary Witcomb]

I find the fact now there are 2 sets of ride listings, a Supporters and a Free one,  I just get double the unread content notifications which is a pain as I have to check them to ensure I'm getting all the info 

 

I do feel we have reinvented the wheel here and does it make the Forum Better, I'm not sure 

 

I also feel that my unread content is now filled with needless repetitive photos of the same ride, with photos being added which look no different to the ones already posted or in some cases poorer photos than already listed, Don't see the point of this as its not adding new content to the Forum but once again I have to click on it to see what the post is 

[Steve Ayling]

Just my 2 cents worth

 

I also feel this is a bad move, I really liked the ride changes forum, I think it was the part I visited the most as you could see the latest info easily. 

 

Having it in the ride list does not show what changes are unless you scroll through the whole thing and read the last updated date for each post.

 

I am happy to be a paid supporter but feel this has made the place worse not better.

[Bill Edwards]

What is your suggestion Gary? I am genuinely interested in any suggestions.

 

The thinking was that by giving access to a free rides list we would gain photos and info from non supporters.

 

The way forward, as I see it now, is either do away with the free rides list and risk losing that information  or allow everyone access to the restricted rides list, which would pee off supporters and run the risk of us not making sufficient to pay the bills.

 

I am open to any suggestions!!

[Gary Witcomb]

2 hours ago, Bill Edwards said:

What is your suggestion Gary? I am genuinely interested in any suggestions.

 

The thinking was that by giving access to a free rides list we would gain photos and info from non supporters.

 

The way forward, as I see it now, is either do away with the free rides list and risk losing that information  or allow everyone access to the restricted rides list, which would pee off supporters and run the risk of us not making sufficient to pay the bills.

 

I am open to any suggestions!!

 

Hi Bill I know what your trying to do, I have no issue with that, and fully support the Teams efforts 

 

But we have to face facts that we are losing out to other platforms and I don't think we are going to win against them, saying that does not mean we give up !

 

Yes it would be great to get New/Different/Older photos from the non supporting members into the listings but that does not appear to be the case, were just getting repeats photos of current machines from members , which I don't like or agree with, 

 

I will say at this point I do enjoy the older photos from Steve Barton who has a fantastic extensive collection, which forms part of the history of the rides,

 

The photos in the ride listing are as far as I'm concerned, is to help with Identification purposes, Not a Photo library of the current machine in every angle know to man

 

As for encouraging our membership to update Ride info/Ownerships we are struggling once again to other platforms, I have seen very little in the way of Recent updates and Yet there are updates on FB all the time

 

Now I know this all sounds negative but I think we are more concerned with Quantity over Quality, what I mean by this we have 3075 members but see a fraction of them posting so why are we trying to keep everyone happy, in fact the Team may have Inadvertently done the opposite, 

 

We only have one thing in our favour and that is our extensive Ride History Listing, the NFA Have no interest in having ride listing, so if your into the history side of things you have no better place than the Forum, I for one don't like or want the Free listing 

 

Some will also say the Forums coming event is also a fantastic resource but its not as  100% of it comes from Social media 

 

I think we all need to step back and have a hard look at the future of the Forum and what we want from it, I know this has been spoken about before but I'm in favour of a fully paid up membership Forum and if this means we only have say 500 members who will support the forum then so be it

(I would also be in favour of all Showmen Receiving  Honorary Memberships) 

 

Many of us will agree we need to keep this Forum up & running, many of us get great enjoyment from it and it helps us with our Hobby' but we have to do something for the future of the Forum or one day it will just disappears

 

The Traditional older enthusiasts are a dying breed, the youngsters way out number us oldies now and for the younger enthusiasts its all about Social media something we have failed to embrace and something we need to look at perhaps 

 

I know this is not suggestions, more opinions from a rambling long term supporter of this Forum but feel we need to do something for the future of the Forum and urge the Membership to speak up on what way the forum should go  

 

 

 

 

[Bill Edwards]

@Gary Witcomb - Many, many thanks for your input. It is so hard to know what to do for the best. I fully accept that we are losing some ground to social media, but I also believe firmly that there is a place for the forum. We all know the utter rubbish that gets posted on social media - lies, rumours and false information are rife, so I think there is a place for a site that (as far as is possible) deals in facts. I think we are that site.

 

As you will be aware, we started out with a Rides List accessible by all members and the forum was free for all, but we accepted donations. Due to the size of the forum it has to use professional software, in professional space with additional professional storage. You were here when we used hobby space and it was a nightmare keeping the forum available. The set up we currently have is first class - but quite expensive. I cannot afford to finance the forum myself so rely on donations. Unfortunately voluntary donations fell to a level where losing the forum was a real possibility. We restricted the Rides List and it has kept us afloat for several years. We became aware that the content of the Restricted Rides list was not what it was with numerous photos "missing". That has been sorted and I was looking for ways to get back the content we had lost.

 

My initial "vision" was a Restricted Rides List with just a single post - the history information and the latest, greatest photo. No replies - a pure compact reference. There would also be a link to a Free Rides List where we would get additional photos and where members could update the information. Moderators would update the latest, greatest photo in the Restricted List if a "better" photo were posted in the Free Rides List. This would give a "reference" Rides List and an almost free for all Free Rides List. It seemed to me to be a good solution. This system would mean that members who subscribed could use the Restricted List for reference and if they wanted to see all the additional photos they could access the Free Rides List. This would also mean that new photos and info would only appear in one place.

 

However it was pointed out that this would mean that we would be deleting all the additional photos on the Restricted Rides List and that by definition "Supporters" would actually be getting LESS for their money - it was felt that this would not work.

 

I appreciate that the Free Rides List has not (with a few notable exceptions) generated the additional content we would like, however it is early days, members are still getting used to it and rather than abandon the idea at this early stage I'd rather see if we can persevere and perhaps tweak it to see if it will pick up. I also appreciate that having the photos posted in two places is a pain - it's also a pain to maintain and moderate and I'm not sure it is sustainable. 

 

The initial question asked by @Daniel Miller was about the Rides Changes forum and I felt that if all members could update the Free Rides List the Changes forum would be redundant. If however there is a desire for this forum it can easily be resurrected. But will that result in extra duplication of the updates? Details in the changes forum, free rides list and the restricted rides list? I don't have an answer and welcome input.

 

I take your points about a totally paid membership, but I do think we would lose a lot of content, which would result in  less members, less content and we'd spiral until the forum were unsustainable.

 

The coming events is a thorny issue. We've tried many ways of listing them over the years and nothing has been comprehensive, easily maintained and user friendly. What we have at the moment is a compromise, but I think it's the best we can do at the moment. Sure it comes from social media, but the info there is very fragmented - at least we have it in one place, 

 

I confess I don't have all the answers. I know I can't please all the members all the time and to be perfectly honest I gave up the pursuit of perfection years ago. I try to do the best I can for the most I can. I am ALWAYS open to suggestions and very much welcome ANY input, either publicly or by PM. There is NO FORUM without the members, so as far as is possible I will listen to any suggestions.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

 

Bill

[Daniel Miller]

Thanks @Bill Edwards.

 

Firstly, I want to thank you and the team for keeping this forum going. I've been a paid member for many years, and I fully feel that the current pricing greatly undervalues what we actually get out of it. I'm sure many of us would be perfectly fine if the price per year had an increase. 

 

The Rides Changes part of the forum was the one I visited most, and found it to be one of the most interesting parts of the forum. Although I understand your reasons for questioning the use of it, personally I feel the alternative way of accessing this info is somewhat cumbersome and a more awkward process, but I understand that others may prefer it. 

 

When I saw the free rides list and paid rides list, I was honestly completely confused. I understand what they mean, but I do find that for such a tiny fee, those that are geniunely interested in using the forum would be happy to pay the minimal fee to access it. I feel that we should only be giving access to paid members, rather than a basic version for free members. I could understand if you were charging £20+ per year, but at £2 per year, I don't think it's needed to provide "a taster" of what people will be able to access in the way of this free rides list. 

 

I feel that for half the price of a coffee for a year's access, there maybe shouldn't be a free member tier. I would consider having a required yearly membership fee (albeit low pricing, just to cover running costs etc) and maybe look at having extra perks for members, whatever they may be. Maybe you could team up with showmen or companies to offer competitions/ free ride tokens /exclusive merch etc included in the membership fee? 

Might be worth teaming up with World's Fair too?

Your free member "taster" info could literally just be screenshots and a description of what paid members can access.

 

Hopefully the comments I've made are constructive and useful, and please don't take anything to heart as I don't intend to offend.

 

Anyway, thanks for your hard work with the forum. We all appreciate your efforts, and happy to discuss further if you would like to 😃

 

 

[Bill Edwards]

I always welcome suggestions even criticism as long as it's constructive. Anyone who makes suggestions is welcome. 

 

I take it you want the free rides list removed and the changes forum reinstated? What format would you like to see for the restricted rides list??

[Paul McHaddan]

Well for what its worth Bill i would say only have 1 rides list (having 2 is doing my head in & others) if members want to see all the information they have to cough up £2 for a year come on its for nothing!!! & it has to be creating more work for you & the team as nobody is coming forward to help move photos etc!!!  

 

Thank you Bill & the team for trying to make this forum a better place with all the information & photos you want in 1 place 👍

Edited May 18 by Paul McHaddan

[Daniel Miller]

2 hours ago, Bill Edwards said:

I always welcome suggestions even criticism as long as it's constructive. Anyone who makes suggestions is welcome. 

 

I take it you want the free rides list removed and the changes forum reinstated? What format would you like to see for the restricted rides list??

Personally I'd love to see the changes forum live again and I agree with @Paul McHaddanabove, my preference would be one rides list, locked behind the membership fee. 

 

But that's only my opinion, do what is best for the longevity of the forum 🙂

[Paul Needham]

some interesting points from many people

whatever you decide to do bill is fine by me, i did get confused by the 2 lists but can see where you are coming from

all this great content on FB? i dont know where you find it? but thats just me, this place is like a supermarket, you go in and get all you need, dont even have to select unread, it just comes on as that as soon as i type all into that bar at the top, its all in one place not dotted about all over like FB and a good idea most of its right as well, and none of those posts where someone just puts someone else's name and they do the same [ is that cos they agree?] 

keep up the good work 

[John Garton]

I pretty much agree with all the above posts, especially having just one rides list and reinstating the New/Changes section. This is a very good resource for any fairground fan, Bill charging £2 per year and members not being prepared to spend 50p a week on it I will never understand as long as I have a hole in my backside.

[J.Buchwald]

I agree with a lot that has been posted.I think subscription  could be more to keep this fantastic  forum going..just my opinion. Thanks

[Bill Edwards]

What format would you like to see for the Rides List??

 

Every photo posted? Selected photos? Main photo only? Supporter posts with updates?? Something else?

[TeacupJohn]

I to agree with most of what has been said but i do think having the ride changes and updates back would be the best idea .i would willing pay more on subscription if needed keep up the good work Bill

[Steve Barton]

The main idea was to encourage more Members to post photos as a way of giving more to both Supporters and Members. I notice from this Topic that only Supporters have commented so far which is a bit disappointing as the a Free Rides List was aimed at those Members who had chosen not to be Supporters. I notice a few comments about duplicate notifications yet on Facebook some people post the same photo on all the Fairground related pages they have joined sometimes I look at my notifications and I can have 20 plus and when I click on them it is the same photo posted on 20 different pages, so in the big scheme of things 2 notifications for the two Rides List is nowhere as bad but that is just my opinion. There are people who have been Members on here for many many years and use it everyday yet will not pay £2 to be a Supporter yet I have seen on Facebook and at Fairs I've visited those same people quoting " On ATFOTF it say's " They aren't the only one's who share things on Facebook freely that they have seen on here , why pay to join when it is being shared free ? The content on this Forum is only as good as what the Members / Supporters post the more we all post the better the Forum will be.  One last thing we are ad free unlike Facebook where you get inundated with pointless adds that no one wants to see 😉🤔

[Gary Witcomb]

2 hours ago, Bill Edwards said:

What format would you like to see for the Rides List??

 

Every photo posted? Selected photos? Main photo only? Supporter posts with updates?? Something else?

We currently now have 2 ride listing sections, a Supporters one with full history and a Members one with just photos

(Is this not just Highlighting the Them and Us of the Forum)

 

Having given this a little thought, can we tweak what has been done

This is my suggestions

 

KEEP

The Original Ride listings / Supporters access with its full written history bur restrict photos as follows

 

Only the Latest & Best Quality full front photo for ID purposes

(If a better photo is supplied the previous one is deleted)

 

Currently members are allowed to post what they like including very similar photos to what has already been posted this should stop what’s the point

 

If there is no photo in the listing but someone has a Poor / Partial view of its current state that would be allowed until a better photo available, anything is better than nothing for ID

 

Current full Load Photo

 

Current full load photo but different unit (as we know the bigger firms with larger fleets can us any number of units they can use)

 

Photos of just the unit are not allowed as they should go into the Transport listing

 

Any Photos of the ride in its older themes etc which adds to the history of the ride  

 

Any Photos of the ride load in its older theme which adds to the history of the ride  

 

I don’t see the point of having photos of it in different owners if they have not made any noticeable changes

 

Ride/Show/Attraction Changes - New Attractions/Rides Forum

 

Reinstate the old way of reporting changes, with the update note put on the listing when changes made as before

 

Now onto the Free Members ride listing

 

Rides List (Free Access - Limited Info)

 

Keep however

 

Change it to Ride Photos Only with no history

Keep the same format as it is, as all the works been done

 

This will allow every member should they wish to post / View there photos of the rides including

 

Day Shots

Night shots

Action Shots

Full Load shots (but not unit shots)

Different owner shots

Art work shots

Manufactures plate photos

Older photos

 

 

So this forum is for photos only, so basically EVERYONE can post what they like in this Forum, but we should be able to transfer photos to the main ride listings if required

 

So we don’t have 2 ride history listing sections we have one (Supporters as before) and a Ride photo listing for everyone to enjoy the photos  

 

 

[Daniel Miller]

1 hour ago, Steve Barton said:

The main idea was to encourage more Members to post photos as a way of giving more to both Supporters and Members. I notice from this Topic that only Supporters have commented so far which is a bit disappointing as the a Free Rides List was aimed at those Members who had chosen not to be Supporters. I notice a few comments about duplicate notifications yet on Facebook some people post the same photo on all the Fairground related pages they have joined sometimes I look at my notifications and I can have 20 plus and when I click on them it is the same photo posted on 20 different pages, so in the big scheme of things 2 notifications for the two Rides List is nowhere as bad but that is just my opinion. There are people who have been Members on here for many many years and use it everyday yet will not pay £2 to be a Supporter yet I have seen on Facebook and at Fairs I've visited those same people quoting " On ATFOTF it say's " They aren't the only one's who share things on Facebook freely that they have seen on here , why pay to join when it is being shared free ? The content on this Forum is only as good as what the Members / Supporters post the more we all post the better the Forum will be.  One last thing we are ad free unlike Facebook where you get inundated with pointless adds that no one wants to see 😉🤔

With duplicates, I think that was what differentiated the forum from Facebook for me, but with having two rides lists, this possibly creates more duplicates than before? 

 

I think the issue around not having more paid members could possibly be resolved by locking everything behind paid memberships, and then also offering incentives like exclusive merch, compeitions etc as a bonus for being a paid member (see my post above). 

 

🙂

Edited May 19 by Daniel Miller

[harry m]

The object of the forum in recent times has been to keep fees/donations/subscriptions to a minimum, whilst at the same time trying to increase the popularity of the forum.

As explained, the site has to use professional hosting services, so attracts professional fees.

 

When we reduced the subscription fee to £2 , we worked out that with the amount of supporters ( at the time) we would still be able to cover costs...which so far has worked out well. The other intention was to make the site a viable proposition for the future, again, which has worked well so far.

It was stated at the time of announcing £2 for Supporters, that in the event subscriptions didn't cover costs, then we'd have to increase the fee. This is something that NONE of us want, and as I write, we don't need to do.

I mention this as several of you have said increase the subscription fee. That would be counter productive, as the sites not run for profit

 

As already explained by Bill above, the hope was to attract more content to the forum.

We know we cant compete with Social Media, EXCEPT we have a more structured site with easier navigation to find things out than any Social media platform. We also hold a data base that no Social media platform can match or perhaps even display.

 

The changes we've made so far were done in the hope of making the site and forum a better place. Obviously you the members are the ones to say if we succeeded or not with those plans! If its constructive criticism, we can handle that, especially if it means someone suggests something good that will help with the future to keep the forum going. 

 

As pointed out in this topic, we're open to suggestions and ideas as to how to improve the forum for you....PLEASE tell us of any ideas you have or would like to see implemented to enable us to do that, after all, the sites future really depends on members input , both written and content provided.

Any suggestions will be looked into and considered

 

I must add that Ive noticed that a lot of genuine factual things being mentioned on Social Media are not being put on the forum as well though, and quite a lot of these things are by members of this forum.

 

This was written and posted 2 minutes after Gary's post above, so haven't had time to go through his suggestions yet. sorry Gary. 

[Harry DT]

I must admit the closure of "Ride/Show/Attraction Changes - New Attractions/Rides" has made it increasingly difficult together news for a monthly report I do. Having it posted under individual ride listings has lead me to checking all recent posts extremely carefully to avoid me glossing over or missing anything. The changes forum section has been my most reliable source to check if there's something I've missed for said reports, just hoping something can be thought out so that it can be used again.

[Bill Edwards]

I've read and listened to all your concerns and I think the way forward is to tweak what we currently have, rather than make drastic changes. We'll see how things go and if further changes are deemed necessary, we can do so. But I think slowly, a bit at a time is probably better

 

With immediate effect the Rides Changes forum is back in use. ALL changes, new rides, updates should be posted here. Changes should not be posted to the individual ride entry - Free or Restricted. Moderators will update the Restricted Rides list.

 

Any new photos submitted for a ride should be posted to the Free Rides List. Whilst we won't routinely remove photos posted, we ask in the the interests of all members that you think carefully before posting. Please take a look at what's already posted and if your intended post is similar, please don't post. The rides list will lose it's credibility and usefulness if it fills with photos all showing the same or similar views. We do reserve the right to remove obvious duplicates. 

 

New photos in the Free Rides list will generate a new post and show as "new content". However photos won't routinely be transferred to the Restricted Rides List. If a new or better "main" photo is posted this will be put in the Restricted Rides List main post. This will not generate a new post or "new content".  

 

What photos are acceptable to be transferred to the Restricted Rides list is open to debate and I am keen to hear your views. My suggestion would be:

(i) The latest, greatest photo

(ii) Photos that show the ride in different decors, guises, lighting packages etc

(iii) Load photo(s)

 

These will generate a new post and new content and I appreciate it will be a duplicate of the free rides list entry, however as it will only be exceptional photos and not done routinely I think the inconvenience will be minimal. 

 

What wouldn't be accepted are:

(i) Different owner

(ii) Different location 

(iii) Photos of different prime movers, unless attached to the load

 

Your thoughts please.